Is an RG still and RG if he/she doesn't realise he/she is RGing? Just a thought..
* RG is a term used at an insti for people who don't share their notes/assignments/or teach you concepts. They do that because the grading system here is Relative Grading (hence the term RG), so your grades depend on how everyone else performs. So, the worse everyone else performs, the better you perform. So many people don't share ideas, etc.. because they want to get good grades by supressing the others. I think the system sucks, but then again, who am I to judge?
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6 days ago
25 comments:
"I couldn't agree more"
:P ...
"I think the system sucks, but then again, who am I to judge? "
Dear Spica,
I was in IIT,M as a student many years ago and I didnt give a shit about RGing. I did my work to the best of my ability and offered any help that I could. If my friends didnt help me with something I would go ahead and find/get it myself.
Prof. Balakrishnan, once told my class in a uest lecture : "dont comment about the system if you havent conquered the system". I got the top cgpa in my dept. (Metallugy) and therefore I think can say something about the system: It doesnt stink. The student do (literally!). They dont work hard enough and complain about everything. The first I learnt about IIT is that you dont get any time to do anything else. Thats because if you want to excel you must spend a lot of time and effort for it. The few years you give on your hobbies, friends etc. will you help you get a secure future after which you could do what you want.
Students complain about everything (incl RGing) without backing it up with hardwork.
RGing is a product of the system I agree but if you work hard enough it can never affect you.
I came to your blog from common choice of profile words with my friends. Cheers!
@ John: :-P
@ C: Good for you that you rose above the RGing, but my point was entirely different. By RGing, people stop sharing/discussing ideas, which helps one a lot. I do not know if you ever had group discussions on various subjects with your batchmates, but in case you haven't, let me tell you that I learnt more through them than I did in the classrooms. RGing kills that. And the system encourages RGing.
RG is good.. A collective effort can make you look better than you actually do :D .. Team work \m/
I am with you Spica. Relative Grading sucks.. just because someone scores 2 marks more than me, that shouldn't make me any less a good student. But RG does that. Plus it kills team work, team effort, collaboration, sharing ideas, group discussions, brain storming. People hoard knowledge, which is anti-productive. High time our top institutions dumped RG for a better grading system that focuses on brain storming.
RG-ing is cool for the one who is doing it. And will seem entirely justifiable. Its an amazingly useful evolutionary life skill. It puts pressure on you to not just be good, but the best around. And you learn to learn independently, and not just depend on some poor first-bench kid who attends all classes, takes full notes, works like hell, all to make your sail smooth at the last minute.
And you learn a few smart-ass fun RG-ing tricks apart from just what the course demands.
RG-ing sucks only for those at the receiving end of it. Losers who cannot survive that cut-throat competition. Tch tch. Its a big bad world.
Sido: RG discourages team work(of all sorts). You got it wrong! :-P
Nikita: Precisely my point.
Bharat: I shouldn't expect anything better from a batak from IITM, but both you and C seem to think that the person who RGs wins and the person at the receiving end loses. what the rest of us are trying to tell you (having studied outside the system) that it's lose-lose for both. Both lose out on the ideas of the others - even the person on top always has something to learn from the rest. If you think otherwise, then what you would've learnt is humility.
@ Everyone: None of you answered my question. The one for which the post was created!!!
The RG phenomenon is a demonstration of the Prisoner's Dilemma.
http://bp2.blogger.com/_-TvXghYCniI/R4IIgYCp4CI/AAAAAAAAACI/43w1CjCEnKU/s1600-h/Prisoner%27s+Dilemma+Acads.jpg
I dont think its lose-lose for both as such. It may seem like a harsh and unforgiving system encouraging back-stabbing etc. Nevertheless you survive it, and you do come out stronger. And shrewdness may be a more useful trait than old-fashioned humility.
In any case this is becoming more of a capitalism-socialism debate, and we may agree to disagree.
P.S.Being a "batak" does not place me in the league of RG-gods by default. I still remember one classmate of ours who actually used to go to each room, borrow all their assignments and notes (from everyone), and intentionally abscond. The whole hostel was left bereft of any kind of study material on the eve of the exam! Well, you just live and learn.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying RGing is bad cos it promotes a "behind closed doors" approach to everything?
Couldn't agree with you more, as far as academics goes. The last thing you need in academics is everybody hiding their research because the system promotes secrecy. There's enough and more evidence to show that the quantum of human knowledge goes down with more stringent patent regimes.
Who's to say the seeds aren't sown by relative grading of rote-learning based tests and assignments?
Bharat: Read the other comments before replying for heaven's sake! We are not discussing learning "life is full of shit". IIT doesn't teach you that, but that's a different post. We're discussing how RGing discourages discussing thoughts/views/idea.
Ess: Well, I guess it starts younger than college life for most people, sadly.
Well, its given that RGing discourages discussing thoughts/views/ideas, whats the doubt about that?
The point is you seem to be conveying that its a bad thing. And I disagree with that. And I thought that was the issue here. But you seem to see what you want to see.
Are you saying that discouragement of discussing ideas is a good thing??
Well it may be good for collective growth of knowledge. But for an individual, it is anyday better for him to compete against others and try to outwit them. The fear that the other guy could know more (and consequently excel at your cost) will make you study harder and smarter and possibly even more than necessary (ideally). You trust solely yourself and are up against the world. Sharing ideas magnanimously seems like a more comforting and steady thing, but again, this is becoming a capitalism-socialism debate.
Precisely what I meant by a batak's reaction. We are telling you, even for the induvidual growth, discussions are essential. Ask any scientist. They will tell you how much they benefit from conferences.
Discussions are better than nothing, of course. But what's the fun if knowledge seamlessly flows into you from all directions in a palatable form? DIY. Discussions should be used minimally, during extreme situations to stay on track and avoid going hopelessly astray. And to cement your stature in your area. Which is what the scientists do.
P.S. You love throwing in the word "batak" in good measure,dont you?
Bharat, dude, do you realize what you've been saying so far? Going it alone means somebody has to reinvent the wheel EVERY SINGLE TIME he begins to study something new (research or otherwise) And ultimately it isn't about how much you know, it's about what you can do with what you know.
If it was only about how much you know, the harddisk in my laptop would beat you hollow!
This may be a totally irrelevant point, but I think the analogy you're looking for here is proprietary software vs open source. Think about it the next time you use Firefox or Open office or a Linux-based system.
"If it was only about how much you know, the harddisk in my laptop would beat you hollow!".True. And thats my whole point. It's the hard process of assimilating and processing knowledge yourself which is more important than just getting a lot of it easy.
Maybe much of what I stand for is equivalent to reinventing the wheel, but there's a profound difference between inventing something yourself (even if its been done before), and just using it and taking it for granted.
Bharat, we're not talking about mugging up some formula from the text-book without understanding what it means. We're talking about ways of interpretting said formula. I may not always get it right by myself.
We're not talking about discussions being the bare minumum required to survive. We're saying that that is the only way one can progress.
If you disagree, and I see you do, then both Ess and I will stop wasting time on you and end this argument by pitying your collegues/batch-mates/collaborators deeply. I'm suprised at myself for letting it go on for so long..
Okay, that's what I mentioned a few comments ago. That we shall agree to disagree. And cling to our dogmas.
And I shall definitely communicate your pity and regards to all my colleagues and future collaborators (if they come to exist).
Quick observation. You do like getting into arguments on your blog, don't you?
I know I shouldn't be one to speak, considering the stuff that's happened on mine, but I couldn't resist!
Oh, and just to answer the original question posed by this post (Posed by the post :D)
I'd say probably yes. Even if you aren't actively aware of what you're doing, as long as it runs in the back of your mind that you shouldn't be helping out your classmates you are RG-ing
Way to go spica..
An RG is a RG even if doesnt realize he/she is a RG...(or else you cant identify RG!)
to MR.c and MR.Bharat Ram: you stand by the true IITian spirit. Congrats..you have been groomed well by the system.
To MR.C specially: the system stinks...I have been at both ends in it..In the so called 'conquered top cgpa' position even I started stinking!
Reading all these comments some words reverberate in my mind ..'lesser theories of the mortals'
Ess: Actually, I don't. Which is why I stopped.
Solvent: I know. Like I said, one doesn't know how much the system sucks if the system is all one knows.
And both of you: THANK YOU for being the only ones to answer the question.
ha ha
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